Legislature(2007 - 2008)BELTZ 211
02/21/2008 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB232 | |
| HB15 | |
| HB260 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 232 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 15 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 260 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 260-STATE OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of HB 260. [Before the
committee was CSHB 260(STA).]
9:54:56 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE DOOGAN, Alaska State Legislature, said HB
260 re-establishes a compensation commission for the principle
officers of Alaska. There was a working compensation commission
in 1979, and Senator Elton was a public member. An attempt was
made to reestablish a similar commission in 1986, but it was
dependent upon a constitutional amendment that never passed. HB
260 has a repeal of that inactive commission. The bill provides
for five members with three public members, all appointed by the
governor. No member will have served in any of the offices that
the commission will consider for compensation in the previous
four years. It will be staffed by the Department of
Administration, and the fiscal note is $7,500. It will report
every two years. Recommendations by the commission will take
effect unless specifically rejected by the legislature. It would
require an appropriation so the legislature will get two looks
at "this provision." There are about 20 such commissions
throughout the country.
9:57:48 AM
SENATOR BUNDE asked if this would be like Congress where if the
legislature fails to vote no, the raise is automatic.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said no, because of the appropriation.
SENATOR BUNDE said Congress automatically gets a raise if the
commission recommends it so they can say, "the devil made me
take this money."
9:58:46 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said there is the overt rejection, but there is an
appropriation requirement. People wanted to move the capital and
because of the FRANK initiative "and other things," it ended up
being "the lack of an appropriation that ended up not
solidifying parts of that." If the intent is to have an
effective system of compensating lawmakers based on the
recommendations of this commission, "I have wondered whether
having the step of appropriating it might be the death of it."
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said it could, but he couldn't find a way
to remove the legislative power of appropriation from the bill.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said to go upstairs to get some ideas.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said the legislature does have to
appropriate the money. He has tried to remove the legislature as
much as possible because he believes rational decision-making
comes from citizens without anything "on the table."
SENATOR BUNDE said to get citizen participation the money has to
come out of the earnings reserve of the Permanent Fund.
10:00:51 AM
SENATOR KIM ELTON, Alaska State Legislature, said he is not here
in the capacity of a senator, but he will speak to 30 years ago
when he served on a salary commission. The impetus for the
commission was a successful initiative that repealed an act that
raised salaries for legislators and created a very generous
retirement system. Commission members were appointed by the
governor. He doesn't remember if there were qualifications for
serving. HB 260 does have one condition. All of the members on
the old commission were from the private sector and did not hold
a state or municipal job. One problem was its scope of
authority; it reviewed the salaries of all elected officials
from governor, judges, and down to division directors. It wasn't
that burdensome on the commission, but it created issues in the
legislative branch when recommendations were made. "There were
so many different recommendations … that it created an
opportunity for so many legislators who disagreed with one
element to be displeased with the recommendation."
10:04:55 AM
SENATOR ELTON said the commission was abandoned and attempts to
resurrect one have not been successful. He thinks the notion
behind a salary commission makes sense, and this narrower one is
better than the previous commission.
10:05:47 AM
SENATOR STEVENS asked if a fair salary would have had an impact
on the ethical lapses that have occurred "in this building."
SENATOR ELTON said yes, but he can't quantify the extent. A
greater impact will be on the demographics of the body, and not
on its ethics. Most members are old white guys who have paid off
their homes. It is difficult for a younger person with house
payments and kids at home to leave their profession and serve.
This is his personal philosophy. The salary of an ethically-
challenged person might not matter. But he hopes that [higher
salaries] will change the demographics of both bodies.
SENATOR FRENCH said the bill is overdue. HB 260 doesn't say how
often the commission will meet. He wants the commission to look
at whether the state really has a citizen's legislature or not.
"We want to think we have that," but he can only think of a few
members who are able to hold on to their jobs. It is hard to do
something else while working at the legislature, and members end
up becoming a professional legislator over time.
10:09:09 AM
SENATOR ELTON said it is an important question, and there are
entities that could help answer that. The National Conference on
State Legislatures rates Alaska as trending toward a full-time
legislature. The commission could get that information easily
without listening to legislators.
SENATOR BUNDE asked if Representative Doogan sees this
commission recommending a full-time legislature. The part-time
one was established by the constitution. "There seems to be some
inconsistency between the fervor for a 90-day session and the
willingness of the public to support a full-time legislature."
10:11:42 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said it is a difficult question because
Alaska has a citizen legislature but they are all professionals
since they get paid to legislate. The question is if it is full
time or part time, which is quantifiable. The days and hours can
be measured. It is his hope that the commission would look at
the indicators of what is actually happening versus a theory of
what is happening, and make a recommendation based on that.
SENATOR BUNDE asked about long-term per diem for people who live
in Juneau. If flies in the face of the definition. Another term
may be more appropriate.
10:13:54 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said it is difficult to explain his long-
term per diem, whereby he gets paid when at home. He recommends
not calling it something that nobody else in the world would
call it. The IRS won't call it per diem, because it is taxed.
SENATOR BUNDE said he suspects that long-term per diem was
coined when there was smoke and mirrors. It is indeed a stipend.
10:15:59 AM
SENATOR GREEN wondered if it was coined for "out-of-towners."
When she heads into a town for a meeting, it's different.
Senator Stevens flies. Her previous district could take her from
Eureka to Talkeetna. A woman needs to take someone with her, so
she has to buy extra meals, and that isn't easy to claim. "It
wasn't designed for urban legislators as much as … out-of-
towners."
CHAIR MCGUIRE said "You face this dilemma where you actually are
working and most people who claim long-term per diem will spend
the whole day working on legislative stuff, and so if you don't
take it, then what do you do?" If it is taken, it is difficult
to explain. "We all know it's compensation for what you're
doing, but the name ends up being odd." She wants this
discussion to be used by the commission. Travel for people who
live outside the highway system creates some disparities. She
said the legislators with retirements think this job is
something to do later in life and shouldn't be paid full-time
salaries. She chairs and vice-chairs a nationwide group, and she
does it to put Alaska in a good light. She brings information to
Alaska. She loves her job, and she doesn't know how to do it
part time. Voices of people in their earning years should be
heard in this building. Gender comes into play, and she thought
of an option of allowing the choice to be a part-time or full-
time lawmaker. Some may want full-time legislators, and some may
not. She said to start calling a spade a spade. "We're not being
really direct about the amount of work that's done, what we're
paid for it, and how that ought to work."
10:20:22 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said his age-group (60 years old) is
vastly overrepresented. Everyone was happily surprised at
Alaska's participation in the [recent national presidential]
caucuses, and that happened because they felt they could make a
difference. He said if more people could do their public service
without having to abandon their private lives, there may be more
options come election time.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said no one believes that being a lawmaker should
be lucrative. It is public service, but should there be a basic
salary to pay bills?
SENATOR STEVENS said he likes the idea of a citizen legislature,
but he works almost everyday. It is not full time, but it
certainly isn't part-time work. The difference between a citizen
and professional legislature is how much a person gets paid.
10:24:21 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said the public often sees the legislature like
the fire department that is on call when someone has a problem.
That dichotomy will be difficult to change. Citizens only want a
full-time legislator when they need one. It is constitutional to
be a part-time body. This commission will be educational.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN said a person called him when he was
running for election and asked why he wasn't in his office when
he dropped by. Representative Doogan told him that his job
wasn't full time. The man responded: "I don't want you to be
there full time, just when I come to see you."
CHAIR MCGUIRE held HB 260 in committee.
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